Sunday, August 20, 2017

Exposing the Underground Reich Part 2 V. 2

Exposing the Underground Reich Part II

 on 
Alexandra Valiente and Hugo Turner
Internationalist 360°
Part I of this interview provided a general introduction to the concept of the Underground Reich where we touched upon its elemental modus operandi. In the next segments, we will focus in greater depth on the history of the Underground Reich, how it became a world wide network, as well as exposing the Underground Reich operating behind current events.

AV: Before we examine the historical trajectory of the Underground Reich, I would like to address the events that took place in Charlottesville this past weekend (August 13). Now the topic of Nazis dominates both media reporting and general public discourse. Do you have any comments on what happened and the responses thus far?
"A photograph of Charlottesville victim Heyer is seen amongst flowers at the scene of the car attack on a group of protesters in Charlottesville © Justin Ide / Reuters
HT: Yes. An innocent young girl, Heather Heyer, was killed protesting against Neo-Nazis, and now the issue of the Underground Reich is front page news. Unfortunately this is what I have been concerned about since these escalating clashes began. Most people have no idea how dangerous what we are facing actually is. There are hundreds of well armed, highly trained fascist groups and militias, many interlocking with the military, police, FBI, and the CIA. They are also funded by wealthy backers. This isn’t a new phenomena. It goes back to well before the Civil War when “copperheads” as they were called, would lynch free Blacks and even Whites who supported the abolition of slavery. Post Civil War saw the rise of the KKK and other terrorist groups populated by former Confederate officers. In a sense they were among the original Underground Reich or “Invisible Empire” as they called it. They shared many similarities with the fascist White Russians and defeated German officers who were the founders of the Third Reich before going underground after World War 2 – a pattern that would repeat itself in Taiwan after the Chinese Revolution and in Miami after the Cuban Revolution.
AVWhile we can see, as you say, the Underground Reich behind front page news, not many will view it that way, and this is where the greatest danger lies is it not, in how these events are interpreted and understood?
HT: Obviously, to someone who hasn’t researched the topic, it might seem impossible or crazy to believe that an Underground Reich could manipulate events this way. However, once they study the enormous influence of Reinhard Gehlen on the Cold War and the CIA, the history of the Gladio networks in Europe which conducted thousands of terror attacks, followed the career of Al Qaeda from Afghanistan, to Yugoslavia, Chechnya, Macedonia, Iraq, Syria and Libya, and examined the workings of the World Anti-Communist League network combining fascists and respectable mainstream politicians, and explored the role of fascists in post Cold War Europe in Croatia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Poland and Ukraine, once one realizes that Germany and Japan were never de-Nazified or cleansed from militarism, and investigated Operation Condor which ruled most of Latin America with an iron fist – then one would be forced to admit that however crazy it sounds at first, the impact of fascism on world history did not end in 1945.
AV: When we see events like this, it is tempting now to ask if Gladio was behind it. Given their mandate is to perpetrate acts of home grown terror, perhaps all acts of terror, wherever they occur, should be viewed as Gladio in action. Ultimately, the most revealing is cui bono? In this case it seems the Nazis are the primary beneficiaries as media portrays them as victims of a hate crime.
HT: The victim was protesting the Nazis. However the incident was seized on to demonize Assad supporters. Neo-Nazis are bragging online that this is a first step in a strategy of tension that will lead to a race war, but they have been trying to start a race war for decades. Frankly, I see it as a blunder since they killed a white girl and brought the rage of the mainstream media upon themselves. This is a country in which a missing American white girl has in the past dominated the news for months at a time. However, sadly people will soon forget this case once the news cycle shifts. The rally itself was undeniably a well planned psyop and I’m sure it gained them many new recruits.
AV: What is interesting is all the fracture lines being played simultaneously, in seeming discord, yet fulfilling a common agenda – from Nazis as victims, to the stirring of anti-Assad sentiment.
It’s also revealing that the Nazis are broadcasting, to quote you,”that this is a first step in a strategy of tension that will lead to a race war”. They are using Gladio language, Gladio terminology.
HT: Yes, they are using Gladio language. Gladio was (and still is) a secret army (active in all NATO, and even neutral European countries) of “stay behind networks”. They justified this by claiming they would be used to resist a Soviet invasion, when they knew there was no such threat. The CIA, MI6, and NATO intelligence, in conjunction with the local intelligence services and the military, created secret armies in every country with hidden arms stockpiles. The recruits were usually fascists. They were used to wage secret wars via bombings, kidnappings and assassinations, which they would blame on the left. The most famous example is Italy, where each secret army had their own distinct name, yet researchers refer to them all as Gladio for convenience sake. It was psychological warfare meant to both discredit the left and empower the military and intelligence agencies that were actually behind the operations. With the War on Terror, and the CIA’s close ties to Al Qaeda which it claims to be fighting, this scenario has entrapped the whole world. Every terrorist attack should be viewed with suspicion. On the other hand, once you train someone and use them to carry out terror attacks, they may decide to launch an attack for their own purposes. Each case should be investigated. There is a troubling pattern in recent terror attacks in which the attacker was under surveillance by security services who are mysteriously called off a couple weeks before the attack takes place.
AV: You describe a global secret empire: the government behind many governments, the army behind many armies, the intelligence agency behind many intelligence agencies…which leads back to your mention of the “Invisible Empire, ” which we have not discussed in the previous segment of our interview. Do the Underground Reich refer to themselves by that name? It’s a rather grandiose self-perception isn’t it?
HT: Invisible Empire is how the KKK referred to themselves. I was struck by the similarity to the term Underground Reich (Reich means empire. Rome was the first Reich. The holy Roman Empire the second, hence the term term Third Reich). Both the KKK and the Nazis were and are completely grandiose and megalomaniacal.
AV: Again, looking at Charlottesville in the context of Gladio, the one thing media spin masters have skillfully avoided addressing is America’s race problem. But the Nazis are discussing it, strategizing the next step in their version of a race war…
HT: Unfortunately, yes. If liberals weren’t so busy whitewashing history and preaching ‘American exceptionalism,’ maybe we wouldn’t have so many ignorant people believing in “white genocide.”
While I’m glad so many are taking a stand against a resurgence of fascism at home, given how for many years I and others have been desperately trying to draw attention to the genocidal war in Ukraine, I cannot resist pointing out the liberal hypocrisy. Only last year Hollywood nominated a movie glorifying Ukrainian fascists for an Oscar. While Obama was in the White House, he launched a racist war against Libya that began with the lynching of Black Libyans. At the same time he also waged a genocidal war in Syria to exterminate religious minorities. Then came the fascist coup in Ukraine that launched Cold War 2.0, which most liberals support. Anti-Russian hysteria is not seen as racist. Liberals have been silent while Muslims were demonized after 9/11. Until American liberals can bring themselves to actually care what happens to the people of Africa, Asia, and Latin America, their claims to champion racial equality will remain nothing more than hypocritical nonsense.
AV: How do you view the protests that have swept across America since the election of Trump? Are they based on a genuine resistance to fascism and white supremacy or are they more of a battle between the Clinton and Trump camps? 
HT: Even the current outrage against the murder of Heather Heyer is tainted by racism. I was inspired to write my Underground Reich article in part because while I was reading The Hitler Legacy, a Black student, David Josiah Lawson, was murdered by racists close to my home. No one has been charged and the case received no nationwide media attention. One can only wonder how many other recent hate crimes against minorities were ignored or suppressed to avoid scandal, not to mention the three police shootings a day. America is in complete denial about its racism problem. It is ironic that the victim of the Charlottesville attack received so much attention because she was white. Hence even right wing racists like Trump condemned her death along with John McCain who actively supported the fascists in Ukraine just as he did in Libya and Syria.
Hillary also condemned it but the Clintons have also been allied with fascists, including the Croatian lobby during the 90’s. Croatia was one of the most brutal fascist dictatorships of World War 2. They massacred countless Jews, Serbs, and Gypsies in the most gruesome manner imaginable. During the Cold War they formed terrorist groups backed by the CIA and Germany’s BND. With the end of the Cold War, Bush senior and the Germans put them back in power and used them to destroy Yugoslavia. The Clintons won the 1992 elections in part due to the support of the powerful Croatian lobby when they promised to back Croatia in the civil war. Like with today’s Ukraine, Americans didn’t care that we had installed a fascist regime since most know nothing about the history of Croatia. No one cared in the 1990’s when they expelled 250,000 Serbs from their homes where they had lived for centuries. This was accomplished with the help of the Clintons who sent in the mercenary firm MPI, to advise and train the Croatians. The Clintons also implemented racist policies at home, slashing welfare and overseeing a massive expansion in the prison system population from half a million to over two million. They recolonized Haiti, once the home of the world’s first successful anti-slavery revolution and the first third world country to achieve national liberation. Hillary’s protégé, Victoria Nuland, oversaw the fascist coup in Ukraine.
American politics is merely a game of crypto-fascists like the Clintons vs open fascists like Trump.
AV: Given the intensity of the psychological war combined with general lack of public awareness of deep events, I cannot see a way to avoid the fulfillment of the Nazi’s goal of a race war unless people become informed about the true nature of the enemy, and here I don’t just mean the enemy of people of a specific race, gender, color, religion, or nation, but the enemy of all humanity.
HT: Well, for Blacks and other minorities this race war has been going on for centuries and in more recent times has been hidden behind the war on drugs, the war on terror and COINTELPRO targeting of leaders. There is also an ongoing economic war on ordinary people. Even some of my white friends live in desperate conditions of poverty.
To live in America is to live under a constant state of low intensity warfare.
A civil war would cripple the empire and topple the ruling elite. They have spent trillions of dollars indoctrinating the world in the illusion of American democracy, so I don’t think they would bring in an open dictatorship without threat of revolution. We will probably see more hate crimes, more terror attacks, I don’t think America will enter into a Syria-style civil war or become an openly fascist dictatorship. Worldwide however, we are in the midst of World War 4 which could easily escalate and destroy all life on the planet. One of the major hot points is Ukraine, so in that sense, the Underground Reich does pose a grave threat to humanity.
AV: Well said. I would leave this thought: Not only in America, but in every nation of the world, we live in a constant state of low intensity warfare. We can see the tremendous advances made by progressive social movements confronting empire with intelligence, strategic brilliance and principled strength. Just as humans created the structures that oppress, we can also dismantle them. 
In Part III we will continue to explore the history of the Underground Reich, from its origins through to the present, to provide context for understanding its function in the destabilization of sovereign nations, the Gladio network and international terrorism.
Copyright © Internationalist 360° 2017

Exposing the Underground Reich V. 2



Exposing the Underground Reich Part I

 on 

Alexandra Valiente and Hugo Turner
Internationalist 360°

Introduction

When I read Hugo Turner’s article, Underground Reich, my immediate sense was that this was clearly the most important information people could have in this era of growing fascism, racism and widespread oppression.
I found in that piece, a perfect summation of things I had discovered in my own research and experience. But it went much farther, as Hugo provided a detailed summary of the history of the Underground Reich from its inception to the global phenomenon it is today. He exposed the tactics of deception deployed that enabled it to thrive, hiding in plain sight behind a multitude of organizations, political and religious movements.
As Hugo and I discussed this research and the revelations based on the investigative work of Dave Emory, it was clear to me that this topic deserved deeper exploration.

Exposing the Underground Reich – Part I

Alexandra Valiente: Welcome Hugo. I am pleased that you agreed to do this interview.
Hugo Turner: Thanks. It’s a pleasure, plus of course I owe you for agreeing to share your knowledge in an interview on Libya last year.
AV: Some researchers have referred to the existence of the “Fourth Reich” but they haven’t addressed the full depth and breadth of it have they? What led you to this area of inquiry and the discovery of the Underground Reich?
HT: Well, my research on the war on terror lead me to the importance of Operation Gladio and the related Gladio B, better known as Al Qaeda, ISIS, Daesh, etc., exposed so brilliantly by Sibel Edmonds. Also, during the NATO war on Libya, I was so disturbed by the level of propaganda turning reality on its head that I began to research previous “humanitarian interventions,” like the war on Yugoslavia, and was stunned to discover that NATO had installed a fascist regime in Croatia, a fact completely opposite to the narrative during the war when the Serbs were falsely accused of being the new Nazis. Thus when the war in Ukraine began and the US once again installed an openly fascist government, I undertook a more in-depth investigation of the topic. I had read The Iran-Contra Connectionby Peter Dale Scott, Jane Hunter and Jonathan Marshall, which has a great deal of information about the World Anti-Communist League and the CIA ties to fascists right before the coup. One of my earliest articles, America the CIA and Fascism, was an attempt to convey everything I knew about fascism up to that point.
I expanded on what I had written in that article after reading Christopher Simpson’s Blowback: America’s Recruitment of Nazis and Its Effects on the Cold War, and wrote Nazis and the CIA.
I then read NATO’s Secret Armies: Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe, by Daniele Ganser, which became the basis for my next article, Operation GLADIO, on the use of fascists to carry out false flag terror attacks to manipulate public opinion.
Next I tackled the topic of the World Anti-Communist League and started listening to Dave Emory’s shows. (World Anti-Communist League Part 1World Anti-Communist League Part 2)
I consider Dave Emory the world’s leading authority on fascism. He’s been studying the topic for 30 years. I also read some of the books he is always plugging; The Hitler Legacy, by Peter Levenda, The Beast Reawakens, by Martin A. Lee, and Dreamer of the Day, by Kevin Coogan. That led to my Underground Reich article.
Of course, for years I had worried about the fascist undercurrent in the alt-media and the amount of racism, xenophobia and antisemitism on social media, so I decided to use my article as a chance to speak out.
AV: Clearly this has been a profound journey, leading you deeper into what most find an incredibly difficult subject. How did you feel about these discoveries?
HT: Well, as a researcher, what I learn continues to amaze me. The more I dig into the history of postwar fascism, the more important the topic becomes. It is impossible to understand the Cold War without understanding America’s alliance with fascism. but most scholars completely ignore it. As a human being I was horrified to discover the scale of the fascist violence in places like America and Germany and the speed with which it can be completely forgotten. The size. scale and sophistication of the Underground Reich is shocking. Most people see fascism as a relic that will eventually disappear. Instead, it is a problem that is growing and morphing.
AV: It’s important you distinguish between your responses as a researcher and as a human being. It seems this balance has made it possible for you to process this information and not be overwhelmed by either its complexity or horror. And because of this, you are able to offer a unique perspective to your readers.
What impact did discovering the truth about the Underground Reich have on your understanding of current trends – and here I mean not only the popularization of fascism, but also the ways the Underground Reich has led to the destruction of most of its potential opposition?
HT: There is a symbiotic relationship between the faux left and the Underground Reich. After 9/11, Chomsky and other liberal gatekeepers, discouraged people from investigating the attacks. The extreme right, however, seized on the topic of 9/11, and although they ended up spreading confusion and disinformation along the way, they were onto something, while Chomsky was, as usual, dead wrong. When one learns of a shocking truth like government involvement in 9/11, it can shake one’s whole world view and one is, in that moment, ready to imprint whatever new world view is nearest to hand. Thus many people began to adopt an Alex Jones-style belief system. But few bothered to investigate the history of the American extreme right, and without knowing it, were being indoctrinated into fascism, while believing themselves to be freeing their minds. If they had traced back the origins of many of these ideas they would have discovered they were all popularized by fascists. And even if you point this fact out, many will remain in denial.
To understand American fascism you must begin by studying it in the post-1917 period, the fascist’s hatred of Franklin D. Roosevelt and the rise of the John Birch Society and similar groups after the war. The Arab world was also targeted with fascist propaganda for many decades and the ugly effects of this are apparent on social media.
Basically it’s time people began a mental housecleaning. For example, many oppose war but believe that the world’s problems will be solved by imposing an even harsher form of capitalism, oblivious to the fact that it is capitalism that drives war. They vilify “the globalists” (who are basically the world’s billionaires) and their lackeys, while at the same time demanding the exact same thing the globalists are working for, namely unfettered free market capitalism and further cuts to social spending. They claim to oppose the police state but view Black Lives Matter protests as solely a Soros conspiracy. Of course, they are misinterpreting the NGO complex which seeks to gain control of all social movements by buying off the leaders and steering them in a direction that doesn’t pose a threat to the system. In other words, people who began with good intentions, to oppose the war on terror and investigate CIA backing of terrorists, were subtly indoctrinated, and over time, the seeds planted back then have matured into full-blown American fascism. Now a huge section of the alternative media is happy simply to be paid propagandists for the Trump administration.
AV: I am glad you mentioned 9/11. Without doubt, this was a deep eventAt that time, some recognized emergent trends that mirrored the rise of Nazi Germany, even going as far as to compare the destruction of the twin towers to the 1933 Reichstag fire. While a few protested the entrenchment of a fascist police state, the majority were remarkably passive, even indifferent, so to have a person like Trump in the White House today is not at all surprising.
Before we delve into the topic of NGOs, because you discovered a symbiotic relationship between the faux left and the Underground Reich, could you briefly address the distinction between faux revolutionary and authentic revolutionary movements? What dangers do legitimate revolutionary movements face from the Underground Reich’s efforts to infiltrate and subvert them?
HT: Unfortunately, my most disturbing discovery was that nearly everyone has been forced into at least temporary alliances with the Underground Reich, both in the socialist world and in the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM). The line between national liberation and fascism can be a blurry one. This is one of the keys to the success of the Underground Reich, since it is outwardly fragmented and constantly mutating, it has managed to ally itself with every side. It is like the CIA in Iraq which is backing all three sides in the war. This is clearly the model empire was using with the War on Terror. Back terrorists and at the same time offer support to the governments they are destabilizing. Then deploy terrorists to infiltrate and destroy those governments.
But to answer your question, genuine revolutionary movements seek to transform the entire society while fascist groups instead seek to scapegoat some group for the problem of society, be they immigrants, Jews, Muslims, or Blacks, etc. They thus channel rage away from the ruling class and towards the poor and powerless.
Infiltration by the Underground Reich can be used to discredit movements like, as one example, those seeking the liberation of Palestine. Over the decades they have learned to mask themselves behind nearly every cause or movement. Even opposition to fascist Ukraine has been infiltrated by a more sophisticated breed of fascist, the Duginists. In third world liberation, peace, ecology, democracy, anarchism, socialism, fascism has mutated to better infiltrate these movements. This is what is truly frightening.
AV: Hamas is certainly one movement that was discredited by Zionist infiltration, and we can elaborate on the relationship between Zionism and the Nazis later
Since it is in the reformist and faux movements that the Underground Reich finds its operatives, how much of a role has the Underground Reich played in the creation of these movements? 
Going farther, are Soros and the CIA mere fronts for the Underground Reich and would it be accurate to view the NGO non-profit complex as a superficial mechanism deployed by the Underground Reich to further its political agenda rather than a separate phenomenon?
HT: Before I answer I want to return to your earlier question about the Fourth Reich.
The Underground Reich is Dave Emory’s term for all the interlocking fascist deep political forces which he sees as centered in Germany, but with allies around the world. It is not how they refer to themselves. The Fourth Reich would be the goal that Nazis were striving towards who weren’t satisfied with a crypto-fascist Germany and wanted a return to full blown fascism. The Fourth Reich is also a term the media applied to Neo-Nazis who Emory and others prefer to simply call Nazis.
There are conflicts among the various networks that make up the Underground Reich, especially at the lower echelons. The Underground Reich is thus more of a conceptual framework for the fascist factions of the world’s deep political forces. Like interlocking circles of networks. Probably most important would be the business networks of German industrialists, capitalists, and their allies around the world in places like the US. Even within this circle there are matters of degree, some seeing fascism as a means to an end, others true believers.
Moving on to your question about the NGO complex and the Underground Reich, in coordination with intelligence agencies, oligarchs in general, not just the fascist ones, fund and run the NGO complex. This is the layer that Peter Dale Scott refers to as the overworld and of course there are different factions within the overworld – American, Israeli Japanese, British, GCC, etc. What portion of it are the Underground Reich would be difficult to determine. However, during the cold war, the CIA used German NGOs as fronts to funnel money for their various schemes to destabilize the USSR and to create a left compatible with their interests. Thus a huge portion of the NGO complex is controlled by the Underground Reich. Dave Emory believes Soros may be part of the Underground Reich and if true, they would have a tremendous amount of influence on the NGO complex. The various factions have their own networks and they all interconnect.
Related to this, an area that interests me most and that demonstrates the way the Underground Reich operates, is the role the Underground Reich played in the destruction of the Soviet Union. When I first learned of color revolutions I was reminded of the scenes of massive crowds protesting during the fall of the Soviet Union and I wondered what part intelligence agencies played. Since then I continue to discover clues that the Soviet Union was destroyed by NATO and the CIA. Fascists were deeply involved. For example, they played a major role in the fall of the Berlin Wall. Neo-Nazis crossed into East Germany and caused all sorts of chaos. Ukraine was of course the most blatant example of the Underground Reich’s role in a color revolution. However, in the so called Arab Spring and the dirty wars against Libya, and Syria, the Underground Reich worked through the fascist Muslim Brotherhood.
Western-leaning liberals in these countries seem to have no problem working with fascists and terrorists. The more foolish ones because they trust the Western media, the more cynical ones because they know they will be rewarded with money and power for their obedience.
Liberals in America have completely ignored the fascist coup in Ukraine and Obama’s criminal wars on Libya and Syria for similar reasons.
American special forces were trained by Nazis and other fascist veterans. Many of their early recruits were fascist exiles. They were based in Germany and old school special forces identified themselves not with their Berets from the British SOE, but by their specially made German mountain boots. American special forces have been training terrorists for 70 years.
Gladio is one branch of the Underground Reich. Gladio B, as Sibel Edmonds points out, arose from the CIA’s alliance with Turkey’s fascist Grey Wolves. Turkey had deep connections to the Third Reich which used the pan-Turkish movement to recruit Turkic speaking Muslims in the Soviet Union into special SS divisions. As I discovered when I was researching there were deep connections between German, Polish, pan-Turkish , and Ukrainian fascists through the Promethean League. During the Cold War the US recruited all these elements to create a global fascist alliance, the World Anti-Communist League (WACL). There was a Muslim branch of WACL, the World Muslim Congress, run by the Saudis and Pakistanis. They were deeply involved in the creation of Al Qaeda during the war in Afghanistan in the 1980’s.
The Muslim Brotherhood worked first with the Nazis and then the Americans during and after the Cold War, targeting the Soviet Union and Arab Nationalist leaders. In Germany there is an infamous Mosque in Munich which is the Muslim Brotherhood’s main European base of operations, originally built for the pan-Turkish Waffen SS that settled in Germany.
Ukrainian fascists fought alongside Al Qaeda in Chechnya and ISIS has been brought into Ukraine to wage war on the Donbass. As their genocidal behavior in Libya, and Syria demonstrates, Al-Qaeda is a fascist organization. Western fascists and Al-Qaeda terrorists are deeply interconnected and used for the same purposes, foot soldiers of the empire.
AV: Hugo, not only is this essential to understanding the history and evolution of the Underground Reich, everything is relevant to current wars of aggression and campaigns of destabilization.
Regarding the Muslim Brotherhood, American and British intelligence (MI6) are not only working hard to recruit members into the organization, they are also diligently promoting them through media and websites such as Conflicts Forum, to present a polished persona of the Brotherhood as the Arab World’s ultimate expression of resistance to imperialism. It is not surprising to find some of their operatives posing as activists, giving interviews to Press TV and Russia Today. In my view, there is no neutral position for one to take on this issue. As I stated in my interview on Libya, “The various organizations working within the Muslim Brotherhood network differ in degree but not in kind. There can be no effective end to terror without dealing with the specter of the Muslim Brotherhood in its entirety.”
We will delve into this and other manifestations of the Underground Reich in future segments.
In Part II we continue to explore the history of the Underground Reich from its origins through to the present to provide appropriate context for understanding its function in the destabilization of sovereign nations and international terrorism.
Copyright © Internationalist 360° 2017

Thursday, August 17, 2017

Exposing the Underground Reich Pt 2

Exposing the Underground Reich Part II

 on 
Alexandra Valiente and Hugo Turner
Internationalist 360°
Part I of this interview provided a general introduction to the concept of the Underground Reich where we touched upon its elemental modus operandi. In the next segments, we will focus in greater depth on the history of the Underground Reich, how it became a world wide network, as well as exposing the Underground Reich operating behind current events.

AV: Before we examine the historical trajectory of the Underground Reich, I would like to address the events that took place in Charlottesville this past weekend (August 13).  Now the topic of Nazis dominates both media reporting and general public discourse. Do you have any comments on what happened and the responses thus far?
"A photograph of Charlottesville victim Heyer is seen amongst flowers at the scene of the car attack on a group of protesters in Charlottesville © Justin Ide / Reuters
HT: Yes. An innocent young girl, Heather Heyer, was killed protesting against Neo-Nazis, and now the issue of the Underground Reich is front page news. Unfortunately this is what I have been concerned about since these escalating clashes began. Most people have no idea how dangerous what we are facing actually is. There are hundreds of well armed, highly trained fascist groups and militias, many interlocking with the military, police, FBI, and the CIA. They are also funded by wealthy backers. This isn’t a new phenomena. It goes back to well before the Civil War when “copperheads” as they were called, would lynch free Blacks and even Whites who supported the abolition of slavery. Post Civil War saw the rise of the KKK and other terrorist groups populated by former Confederate officers. In a sense they were among the original Underground Reich or “Invisible Empire” as they called it. They shared many similarities with the fascist White Russians and defeated German officers who were the founders of the Third Reich before going underground after World War 2 – a pattern that would repeat itself in Taiwan after the Chinese Revolution and in Miami after the Cuban Revolution.
AVWhile we can see, as you say, the Underground Reich behind front page news, not many will view it that way, and this is where the greatest danger lies is it not, in how these events are interpreted and understood?
HT: Obviously, to someone who hasn’t researched the topic, it might seem impossible or crazy to believe that an Underground Reich could manipulate events this way. However, once they study the enormous influence of Reinhard Gehlen on the Cold War and the CIA, the history of the Gladio networks in Europe which conducted thousands of terror attacks, followed the career of Al Qaeda from Afghanistan, to Yugoslavia, Chechnya, Macedonia, Iraq, Syria and Libya, and examined the workings of the World Anti-Communist League network combining fascists and respectable mainstream politicians, and explored the role of fascists in post Cold War Europe in Croatia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Poland and Ukraine, once one realizes that Germany and Japan were never de-Nazified or cleansed from militarism, and investigated Operation Condor which ruled most of Latin America with an iron fist – then one would be forced to admit that however crazy it sounds at first, the impact of fascism on world history did not end in 1945.
AV: When we see events like this, it is tempting now to ask if Gladio was behind it. Given their mandate is to perpetrate acts of home grown terror, perhaps all acts of terror, wherever they occur, should be viewed as Gladio in action. Ultimately, the most revealing is cui bono? In this case it seems the Nazis are the primary beneficiaries as media portrays them as victims of a hate crime.
HT: The victim was protesting the Nazis. However the incident was seized on to demonize Assad supporters. Neo-Nazis are bragging online that this is a first step in a strategy of tension that will lead to a race war, but they have been trying to start a race war for decades. Frankly, I see it as a blunder since they killed a white girl and brought the rage of the mainstream media upon themselves. This is a country in which a missing American white girl has in the past dominated the news for months at a time. However, sadly people will soon forget this case once the news cycle shifts. The rally itself was undeniably a well planned psyop and I’m sure it gained them many new recruits.
AV: What is interesting is all the fracture lines being played simultaneously, in seeming discord, yet fulfilling a common agenda – from Nazis as victims, to the stirring of anti-Assad sentiment.
It’s also revealing that the Nazis are broadcasting, to quote you,”that this is a first step in a strategy of tension that will lead to a race war”. They are using Gladio language, Gladio terminology.
HT: Yes, they are  using Gladio language. Gladio was (and still is) a secret army (active in all NATO, and even neutral European countries) of “stay behind networks”. They justified this by claiming they would be used to resist a Soviet invasion, when they knew there was no such threat. The CIA, MI6, and NATO intelligence, in conjunction with the local intelligence services and the military, created secret armies in every country with hidden arms stockpiles. The recruits were usually fascists. They were used to wage secret wars via bombings, kidnappings and assassinations, which they would blame on the left. The most famous example is Italy, where each secret army had their own distinct name, yet researchers refer to them all as Gladio for convenience sake. It was psychological warfare meant to both discredit the left and empower the military and intelligence agencies that were actually behind the operations. With the War on Terror, and the CIA’s close ties to Al Qaeda which it claims to be fighting, this scenario has entrapped the whole world. Every terrorist attack should be viewed with suspicion. On the other hand, once you train someone and use them to carry out terror attacks, they may decide to launch an attack for their own purposes. Each case should be investigated. There is a troubling pattern in recent terror attacks in which the attacker was under surveillance by security services who are mysteriously called off a couple weeks before the attack takes place.
AV: You describe a global secret empire: the government behind many governments, the army behind many armies, the intelligence agency behind many intelligence agencies…which leads back to your mention of the “Invisible Empire, ” which we have not discussed in the previous segment of our interview. Do the Underground Reich refer to themselves by that name? If so, what does that say? It’s a rather grandiose self-perception isn’t it?
HT: Invisible Empire is how the KKK referred to themselves. I was struck by the similarity to the term Underground Reich  (Reich means empire. Rome was the first Reich. The holy Roman Empire the second, hence the term term Third Reich).  Both the KKK and the Nazis were and are completely grandiose and  megalomaniacal.
AV: Again, looking at Charlottesville in the context of Gladio, the one thing media spin masters have skillfully avoided addressing is America’s race problem. But the Nazis are discussing it, strategizing the next step in their version of a race war…
HT: Unfortunately, yes. If liberals weren’t so busy whitewashing history and preaching ‘American exceptionalism,’ maybe we wouldn’t have so many ignorant people believing in “white genocide.”
AV: Given the intensity of the psychological war combined with general lack of public awareness of deep events, I cannot see a way to avoid the fulfillment of the Nazi’s goal of a race war unless people become  informed about the true nature of the enemy, and here I don’t just mean the enemy of people of a specific race, gender, color, religion, or nation, but the enemy of all humanity.
HT: Well, for Blacks and other minorities this race war has been going on for centuries and in more recent times has been hidden behind the war on drugs, the war on terror and COINTELPRO targeting of leaders. There is also an ongoing economic war on ordinary people. Even some of my white friends live in desperate conditions of poverty.
To live in America is to live under a constant state of low intensity warfare.
A civil war would cripple the empire and topple the ruling elite. They have spent trillions of dollars indoctrinating the world in the illusion of American democracy, so I don’t think they would bring in an open dictatorship without threat of revolution. We will probably see more hate crimes, more terror attacks, I don’t think America will enter into a Syria-style civil war or become an openly fascist dictatorship. Worldwide however, we are in the midst of World War 4 which could easily escalate and destroy all life on the planet. One of the major hot points is Ukraine, so in that sense, the Underground Reich does pose a grave threat to humanity.
AV: Well said. I would leave this thought: In not only America, but every nation of the world, we live in a constant state of low intensity warfare. Whatever is to come, it is imperative that revolution arise from the grassroots, the oppressed people, and that it not be co-opted by any of the various agents of the Underground Reich – a revolution that will put an end to their agenda before they destroy humanity and the planet. We can see the tremendous progress of social movements confronting empire with intelligence, brilliant strategy and principled strength. Just as humans created the structures that oppress, we can also dismantle them. 
In Part III we will continue to explore the history of the Underground Reich, from its origins through to the present,  to provide context for understanding its function in the destabilization of sovereign nations, the Gladio network and international terrorism.
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